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tv   Hannity  FOX News  May 16, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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please remember the spin stops right here because we are definitely looking out for you. >> this is a fox news alert. there are breaking developments tonight out of washington regarding the irs enemy's list scandal. a short time ago fox news learned that a second top official at the tax agency has announced plans to resign. now for the latest on the fallout surrounding the scandal and much more we head to washington. doug, what's the latest? >> the second ira executive to announce his plans to retire is joseph grant, commissioner of the tax-exempt entities division. he's an 8-year vet and former staffer of the house ways and means committee. that's the tax writing committee on the house side. surprisingly he was promote today his position only eight days ago, two days before the
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scandal broke. previously he worked for the democratic majority of the powerful ways and means committee. under the former illinois congressman. irs employeesed thousands to causes but two-thirds benefited democrats and liberal leaning organizations. one of those donors was douglas shulman. he was a george bush appointee and contributed $5,000 in 2004. the first hearing on the irs scandal commences tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. in the house ways and means committee. they will know doubt and how high up in the chain of command did this go. president was asked about that today. >> can you assure the american people that nobody in the white house new about the agency's
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actions before your counsel's office found out on april 22nd and when they did find out do you think you should have learned about it before you learned about it from news reports as you said last friday? >> let make sure i answer your specific question. i can assure you that i certainly did not know anything about the i.g. report before the i.g. report had been leaked through press -- through the press. >> the president's carefully worded response didn't address the specific question. we are told tonight jay carney told him this evening that folks in the white house were first made aware of an investigation at irs several weeks ago, but had no details. sean. >> thank you. also breaking tonight a stunning revelation from inside the irs. fox news has confirmed that the official who was in charge of the irs, the tax exempt
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organizations office when the scandal was taking place, she's the head of the irs obamacare implementation office. the latest piece of evidence that all of this was a coordinated political campaign aimed at silencing conservatives. reaction from this bombshell is beginning to pour in from capitol hill. a short time ago senator john cornyn released a statement, it reads, quote. >> joining me with the late breaking developments is former speaker of the house, newt gingrich. good to have you back. >> good to be with you. this is an extraordinary time for us to have a chance to talk about how washington really works. >> you know, you have been thinking a lot of time thinking, we've been friends for many, many years, before we get into the specifics of all this, give me the big picture what you see going on in washington overall. >> well, i think between the
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benghazi scandal, the scandal of secretary sebelius, who has been using government power and prestige to raise money illegally to implement obamacare despite congressional appropriations and the scandal we have with the internal revenue service, the scandal we have with the justice department taking two solid months of records from the associated press secretly what, people will confront is this is a challenge of the entire process of big government. this isn't did barack obama as a person. this is not a personality defect. this is the nature you are of large bureaucratic government to do dangerous things, then to lie about having done them, and then to smear the people who tell the truth and i think we need to confront. never is there a better argument for repealing obamacare than what you are watching day-by-day as this starts to unfold. >> interestingly today that very thing happened.
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only two democrats in the house of representatives, again, they have done it before, voted to repeal the healthcare bills and only two democrats voted with them. the breaking news about the woman that was in charge for the irs tea partying targeting is now running the irs obamacare implementation? is that a good choice? >> first of all, this ought to tell you that this certainly reaches up into the white house. does any serious person believe that the top ranking internal revenue service person in charge of implementing obamacare was just casually picked? does anyone think that there was any disapproval what she was doing to stop conservative groups, tea party groups, some of whom -- there's a 27-month period when not a single tea party gets certified by the internal revenue service. 27 months. over two years. now, does anybody seriously believe that the person in charge of doing that, who, by
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the way, got $100,000, technically $103,000 in bonuses for having done a great job, do you really believe that she was picked to implement obamacare at the internal revenue service where there's a huge build-up of staff to make sure they contract every single person in america on the health side, that she was picked without the white house approval? it's in conceivable. i hope the congress will demand every e-mail, every conversation related to her being picked for that job. it is clearly going to lead directly into the white house. >> well, that's pretty profound. how significant, in your view, mr. speaker, is it that they knew about this for such a long period of time before the election? >> look, go back and look at every democratic senator who was writing letters demanding that the certainly revenue service
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inspect carefully all of these groups. there are a lot of democratic senators who are part of the pressure to do this. look at the george sorrus funded organizations on the left. they were demanding the internal revenue service do this. go back and look at the president and vice president's hysterical language, smearing and then attack being these groups. i keep reminding people, this is an administration which refuses to profile terrorists, even though 30 out of 31 of the top fbi-wanted terrorists all have the same terrorist sticks but you can't profile and tell you about it because that would be inappropriate. but they were profiling words like patriot, constitution. it is unimaginable how corrupt the irs had become culturally by this left wing bay as toward conservatism. >> you told about how they will go after those seeking the truth or seeking answers.
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strategically, and you often think strategically, what do you recommend the republicans do in anticipation of that as they try to get answer ons that? i think we need answers on the a.p., on benghazi and certainly the irs scandal. how do they handle that? >> the leadership, for example, people like darrell issa, who has done a great job on the investigation oversight committee as chairman, with the things john boehner has been doing recently, and we see eric cantor doing, i think they are moving in the right direction. but i think the key is to slow down. this story has to be thoroughly understood by the american people. i hope the ways and means committee over the next two months will bring in every single group that was sabotaged by the internal revenue service. let the country see how many different groups, and by the way, not just tea party groups but i just got a note today about a conservative pro national security group that had
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exactly the same kind of treatment, the same kind of harsh behavior from the internal revenue service. there is some donors, frankly, who are being treated unbelievably harshly. they should be brought in. and a lot of decision documents need to be pulled forward, a lot of people have to testify. they can't get away on the democratic party side with claiming it was one or two people. there were a lot of people involved in this and we need to look at all of them. >> i like the idea let people come in. let the country hear their stories, what they went through and then we will go from there. i think that's a good strategy. when we get back i want to ask you about benghazi and the significance of that. we will continue more with speaker gingrich and then also coming up tonight on "hannity." >> i will tell you on the irs front. i've worked in the town over 20 years, in the white house and on capitol hill, and i can say with a very strong certainty that people not only new close to the
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president, but authorized it. >> and who may have been involved in the he enemy's list scandal and send us your feedback. you get to pick the video of the day. i will play one of these videos in its entirety at the end of the show. it may very well be this. see that deer bus through the front windshield? we have multiple camera angles. if you think it's the video of the the day, you get it vote. two more videos coming up. [ male announcer ] from red lobster's chefs to your table our seafood dinner for two for just 25 dollars! first get salad and cheddar bay biscuits. then choose from a variety of seafood entrées. plus choose either an appezer or a dessert to share.
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>> bell -- well, come back. we continue with speaker gingrich. who brought in the narrative that it was spontaneous with benghazi, and it was in retaliation for a youtube video is? who is the one question you would like answered, or maybe you have a number of them? >> i think there's core question here. when the state department head of communication says my building's leadership doesn't like the cia's analysis, the question you have to ask is first of all, it's an interesting language. my building's leadership? is it she mean secretary
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clinton, who was the leader of the state department? secondly, what was it they didn't like about it? i think what's really itightening is much deeper than yet. i think this may not have been driven by obama's re-election. i think it may have been driven by the passion the state department has to avoid telling the truth about radical islamists and i think what they were afraid of is if people understood that this was, in fact, a radical islamic attack that killed an american ambassador and three other americans that the anger of the american people would be focused on radical islam at the time the state department was trying to support a president that came out of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. in my mind it may relate more to the desperation of the state department to blame america first. they all wanted to blame this one stupid video. the president mentions it in the united nations speech.
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it comes up again and again. and partly on the left it's so much easier to blame americans than it is to tell the truth about who our enemies are. it may be this is a cultural story more than a political story. >> don't you think, though, it has to be seen through the prism of the election? because the narrative was that al-qaeda had been beaten, that bin laden was dead? >> i would have said that if the person speaking was from the white house staff. but the person speaking is secretary clinton's agent. you may well be right. that's certainly, in washington, the smaller view. but i'm just really struck, even as recently as the boston bombing, when you have two chechnyans engaged in a bombing and the first reaction is, gee, i wonder what their motives were. you almost want to break down and cry. this is a wilful hiding from the truth that goes on over and over among our elites. so i think they were eager to
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grasp on this film because the film allowed them to attack an american. whereas if the real culprits, as they turned out to be, were radical islamists, then it would have been another example. this is not something, sean, i came to early on. it was only as i kept thinking why is it the director of state department communications, speaking on behalf of, quote, my building's leadership, who is driving this. it's not the white house. the white house would have been usually, narrowly political, and i frankly could be giving you a different analysis tonight. >> isn't the guy that made the film still in jail, interestingly enough, out of all of this? i think he might have. >> why would he be in jail? >> well, remember they put him in jail for -- he had a probation violation of some sort and it resulted in him being arrested and put in jail. here's my point, though. the talking points originally were right. they mentioned al-qaeda, they mentioned terror, they mentioned all the things we know now to be
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true. it evolved into a web of lies to the point where the cia where they originated, david petraeus said frankly, i would just as soon not use this. he didn't want to advance what he knew was a lie. >> well, i think -- you are right. i mean, you and i -- we are talking from a common set of facts. it's a fact the central intelligent agency, as did the people on the ground in libya, as did the libyan government, all three were saying this is a terrorist terror attack that killed an american ambassador and three other americans. any question. and then it was fundamentally changed into a lie to be told to the american people, including by the president and ambassador of united nations an five shows that sunday and that had a political effect. but the more frightening thing is it reflects a cultural
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problem in the state department they think should terrify most americans. >> one last question about president obama, two aspects. number one, he was informed about four or five o'clock in the afternoon and apparently he never spoke to anyone else again and went to bed and got up and went campaigning. even through weeks later he advanced the narrative about that youtube video. what are your thoughts about how he handled it? >> cold, isolated, without any regard for the people who served the united states and willing to be remarkably aloof from the people he's supposed to be commander in chief for. >> it was a symbolic moment today when the marines came out and put the umbrella. they were protecting him and maybe in this case he should have been protecting them. >> exactly. >> we appreciate it. good to have you on the program. and still ahead, a reporter forces the white house chief prop bandit, jay carney, that a member of the president's circle
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mom, come on. mom! because we know that this is the season that inspires. (sigh) from dressers to duvets, it's time to refresh with ikea. >> welcome back to "hannity." earlier tonight we showed you out president obama completely avoided a question about whether he or anyone in the white house new about the irs targeting of conservatives before last friday. that's the latest piece of
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evidence that is pointing to the possibility of the white house involvement in the scandal. now earlier this week a veteran political analyst said he thought the white house might have even authorized the tax agency's actions. listen to this. >> i will tell you this on the irs front. i have worked in this town for over 20 years. i worked in the white house and on capitol hill, and i can say with a very strong sense of certainty that there are people very close to this president that not only knew what the irs were doing, but authorized it. it's simply just does not happen at an agency level like that, an initiative like that, without political advisors likely in the west wing, certainly connected to the president's ongoing campaign organization that didn't know about it. >> pretty harsh. that's not all because on tuesday of this week press secretary jay carney also left the door open in the possibilities of the white house being involved. listen to jay. >> you just said categorically, known from the white house or the president's political team
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were involved. the bulk of this press conference is you don't have all the facts. what gives that you confidence. >> i have no reason to believe. >> you are done it to good faith? does it just your assumption. >> i can tell you that i am not aware of anyone here knowing about it. it would be obviously -- >> it's not your direct knowledge of being aware of anyone here? >> allen, you can ask me if somebody. >> you asserted something categorically and i want to know how you know that. >> i'm certainly not aware of and am confident that no one here was involved in this. >> stylistic differences. jay carney is having a pretty huff time of it of late, but he really did. i thought the reporter, by saying, you know, hang on a second, you say you don't have all the facts and you say you know for sure that that didn't happen. that was a good question. >> yeah, it was a really good
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question and i don't think that jay carney's dancing was enough to get him out of hot water. i don't understand how people can't be aware, especially at the higher up. you have to think about it. dug shulman testified before two committees when he pointedly was asked was his agency targeting tea partying, and pro israel and jewish groups and targeting pro life groups and he adamantly denied it not once but twice. it happened a year after lois learner and other managers, including their chief counsel at the irs, had several different meetings will where they discussed their agency was pointedly targeting tea partyers and pro life groups and pro israel groups so they were aware of it. the question becomes why did they ignore it? maybe it's because they wanted to wait for the story to come out after the election. >> i think that's probably a good point. leslie marshall, we know representative dave camp of the
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house, ways and means committee, he's saying that doug shulman and others lied before congress. we are going to begin some hearings tomorrow with his successor. what are your thoughts as a liberal? >> well, first of all, doug shulman was not a liberal. george w. bush appointed him. we've seen hue heads roll, the number one and number two at the irs currently difficult, i think that shulman should be brought and that should be brought up? absolutely. we said on the left and on the right as americans that we want anyone targetrded, and i say that as a liberal but also, sean, i don't want any tax-exempt status given to groups on either side when they aren't following the law. if they are political in fate you are they aren't following the law. >> let's stay focused here, if we can. dana. >> steve miller, that that was a freak show. he was the acting commissioner. he wasn't there when all of this
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took place and he was leaving in three weeks. he was already leaving. so that wasn't any loss that's correct wasn't any skin off of anyone's back. we need to hear from doug shulman and there needs to be more heads rolling. and people who are there at the irs. >> let me jump in and ask me this. this i think is important. we know that members of the senate, members of the house, democrats, they were asking for these groups to be targeted. they were requesting to get the added scrutiny, and it then happened. >> yeah. yeah. absolutely. there are a number of democrats who have letters back and forth with the irs and with the commissioner and with different managers within the irs who were specifically asking for this increased scrutiny. and then to top it all off, you have sarah hall ingram, who is the commissioner of that particular department of the tax-exempt organizations within the irs, and now where is she? she's heading up the obamacare division of the irs.
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same person who was targeting tea partyers and other groups, she's still there and she was promoted. how does that happen? >> leslie, i think it would be honest of those of you on the left to say for the sake of every american, you know, we now reach a level of soft tyranny here if we are targeting people, intimidating people based solely on their opposition to the government or their particular point of view. i think there is not been enough outspoken by people on your side. >> i disagree. the president of the united states is a commander in chief and he's a democratic president, he has spoken out against this, as has barbara boxer and nancy pelosi and numerous people on the left. >> is it george bush's fault, then? >> i want to say something to dana. dana, you know i like you, okay? but i'm going to buy you a surfboard because you are riding a wave of conspiracy to connect
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to the president. >> these are facts. >> and appointees being pushed around. >> how is it a conspiracy theory? >> where is the facts? >> where is the facts that the president of the united states -- where is the fact that the president of the united states -- >> it's called getting the full story. >> right, and you said not enough heads rolled. >> hang on a second. let dana answer. answer. >> it's not a conspiracy theory. these are facts. there are documents. we know the meetings happened, we know people all the way at the top of the irs knew. and we already have one story that was suppressed on yemen. >> where is the story that has the president quoted as ordering the irs to do this? >> why is sarah hall ingram still employed? what does sarah haul ingram sil have a job as of today?
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>> that's the question. >> perhaps because it's been less than a week. we have two people fired. >> i'm still not hearing -- [speaking over each other] >> you are not paying attention, leslie, you are not paying attention. >> thank you, dana. >> answer it, dana. >> i did answer of it. you didn't like my answer. >> we have to go. still ahead, the president's friend and mainstream lap dog media are having a hard time defending him. and last night's white house document about the benghazi talking points proves what we on this program have been saying for months, that they were deliberately change bid members of the administration. when we come back, john sununu, we will get his reaction. and log on to our special cam uponnian site because we want to hear from you. send your comments. you get to pick the video of the day. you can also vote on twitter
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>> the only he had its made by anyone at the white house were stylist stick and not substance. they drafted and redrafted the he had its. and when it comes tosylistic he had it's we were clear about the he had its made at the suggestion of the white house. the he had its made in the talk points was limited and nonsubstantive. >> those are examples of jay carney trying to push the white house narrative that the white house and they had nothing to do with editing the talking points. but 24 hours after the document dump we can prove his statements
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are absolutely false. here's why. an e-mail from someone at the cia said, quote >> there's more. another e-mail sent to two high-ranking white house advisers. it says, quote, >> it's interesting, people at the white house were involved and there were more than just silistic changes. joining me now is former governor john sununu. these are not stylist stick changes. there have been so many falsehood he is told here. >> it's anything about changes. >> what? >> i thought you were finished. i'm sorry. >> no, go ahead.
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>> these are cover your butt changes. i find the interesting thing is the following. when the u.s. has an ambassador and his embassy personnel under siege, you don't see the presence of the chief of staff or the national security advisor in e-mails? it is unbelievable to me that either this president and his senior staff members, the national security advisor and the chief of staff were kept out of the loop, and that may be even worse than they were in the loop. the fact that this is all going on and they are not participating in the process is terrible. you know, people are trying to hide whether or not the white house was involved. the white house should have been involved in trying to do it, but they should have tried to do it honestly because this was important enough that the american public had to hear the truth. and to leave it as they try and
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make us think leave it to these third and fourth levels to do is absolutely ridiculous. >> all right. when you look at the variations, we know 12 different revisions, probably in the end there's more. it's interesting, as we got the notes out, one of the things that really stuck out in my mind was the fact that they -- they didn't give us the first two days of e-mails. >> two and a half days, 67 hours. there is no way an ambassador could have gotten killed without exchanges taking place right away. and as i say, in my opinion there is no way it could have taken place without the president at least communicating internally to his national security advisor and his chief of staff. and those two people communicating with the state department and cia. those are the e-mails you want to see. >> is there any plausible explanation that you can think of how they had the truth, they had it right, and then it
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evolved into a web of lies that nobody that we know on the ground ever stated? other than we were lied to. is there any other plausible explanation? >> no. and it clearly, in my opinion, really was related to the campaign, to the president's narrative that they had wiped out, if you will, terrorism, so to speak. that in getting rid of bin laden they took care of everything. this undermined that whole narrative. it undermined the whole pivot point on which his foreign policy was hung. and if benghazi, the truth in benghazi came out when it should have come out, the president's foreign policy hook for his campaign would have gone away and he would have had a real problem. so i'm absolutely convinced that this was driven by pure unadulterated politics. >> what are we to make when they took out the word "islamic extremist with ties to al-qaeda,
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ansar al sharia, an al-qaeda-linked group. all of these things taken out. is there anything we read into that's correct the things they took out? >> i go back to what i said, the president was trying to tell america in killing ben laud in he took care of the terrorism issue, and anything that suggested otherwise undermined not only that part of his foreign policy hook, but really if benghazi was as bad as we know know it was, it undermined the approach to foreign policy which the president is completely detached, uninvolved, and frankly, i'm astounded to hear him admitting that he is clueless on so many things. if you listen to him and holder, they don't know squat about anything. >> you think when david petraeus wrote in december he said i would just as not use this that he was acknowledging it was a
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lie? >> i think david got very, very nervous in terms of his own reputation and his own character. this whole issue on benghazi is an issue of character. and i think petreas got nervous about it, that's why he made those notations, that's why he tried to express to people that they ought perhaps not to use what had evolved as talking points. and i find it ironic, a maybe that's the wrong word, but i find it ironic after a couple months after petreas expressed that, after he abandoned the team that petaras -- >> we have to go. our media segment is next and with the new staples rewards program you get 5% back, on everything. everything. everything. everything. everything? [ all ] everything? everything. male announcer ] get free shipping and 5% back on everything your business needs. that was easy. if you're suffering from constipation, miralax or metamucil may take days to work. or faster relief, try dulcolax laxative tablets.
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some things won't last 25 years. ah! woof! some things will.
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some things won't last 25 years. ah! woof! some things will. >> welcome back to "hannity." time for media mash, weekly
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roundup of all the ways the mainstream media tries to put their liberal spin on the news. this week, helping the administration gloss over three major scandals. we have the great president of the media research center, brother brazel. how are you? >> fine. >> he's basically advising him not to take advice from him. watch. >> president obama has to stop taking advice from sica fans. he needs to act, he needs to fire people, he needs to grab control of his presidency, needs to surround himself with people wanting to fight on every front. it's hard for the president to come down from his high ladder and say i need help. >> he somehow emfan two --
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tasizes the people around him. sometimes they tell him the bad news. they aren't all -- >> a little irony there? [laughter] >> i couldn't resist. i had to start with that. >> okay. a sicafan who is in awe and in love with barack obama. call your office. >> exactly. >> this is a man who spits to tell us how much obama is the perfect man. >> he gets the feeling of ecstasy at the very sight of obama. let's go to dan rather. republicans might be thrilled by the scandals. i don't think anybody is thrilled by them. i think the american people have a right to the truth. >> the republicans must be slapping high-fives behind closed doors. they have three things. one, their number one agenda item is to stop president obama from accomplishing anything in his second term and this aids
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that. two, the next congressional election in 2014 and many republicans in congress were getting estranged from the tea party and now they have solidarity with them moving toward the election. and with the benghazi thing, they managed to damage hillary clinton's chances of not only getting the presidency in '16 but also getting the nomination. >> i felt he never has gotten over his bitterness of how he left cbs. am am i i don't think? >> no, you are not. this is a page right out of the clinton lay book and dan rather knows that playbook more than anyone. you cover a democratic scandal for a couple days and then you move away. when the republicans respond you turn on the republicans and make them the iraq you saying they have a pure political, cynical calculation to take advantage of a situation. in this case he's saying republicans are investigating
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this because they want to win race,, they want to stop his agenda and stop hillary clinton. this is pure left wing political activism that dan rather is engaging in. >> let's go to cnn. we learned about the benghazi scandal, they had it right from day one, they knew halves ansar al sharia, an al-qaeda linked group and it was a big web of lies they created to protect the president and the election. but on cnn, they don't try to control the message, lying? >> it's obvious that someone mishandled something. it's obvious. it is looking pretty partisan when you look at all of the talking points that are being used. let me ask this question because the accusation is that the obama administration in some way tried to change the talking points or water them down my question is,
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and i'm being honest about this, what administration, anna, doesn't try to control the message no matter what it is? >> i think every administration tries to control the message. but one thing it's controlling the message is one thing is scrubbing e-mail twelve times to the point where they are completely false and misleading. >> controlled message, these are outright lies. >> that's like saying that richard nixon was controlling the message when he erased the videos. he was also controlling the message. life it how this guy says the benghazi message was obvious. benghazi happened eight months ago and they just arrived at it. we've been talking about it ate months. it wasn't obvious at all. this is more spin control. if it is as easy as he is saying, why did carney lie over and over again to the press about it. >> there are brave souls, rare as they are, who are trying to
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do good work. a friend at cnn interviewed cbs's cheryl atkinson and she's been all over this benghazi issue, not quite as much as fox, not as head of the game, but they have done good reporting and i have to give credit where it is due. she was asked about this and i have to give her props bus she's a rare voice in the mainstream media. tell me what you think of this >> the media is not always consistent in the vigor they use to pursue a given topic. i never quite understand the difference because i think if something is important when one administration is in office then it should be treated equally when another administration is in office and i don't see that as always the case. i do think the media did not use the opportunity in the weeks and months after benghazi to be as per sis extent and points as they should have considering the importance of the issue, in my view. after independently looking at the fact i think you can't walk
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away and conclude anything other than it's an extremely important story with many unanswered questions and contradictions. i think some in the media were not as curious as i think naturally journalists ought to be. >> very well said from my perspective. from yours? >> beautifully put. she's a consummate professional. she covered the story, she broke it. what's going on right now, sean has been, is behind the scene, the whispering campaign that started against her about how she overreached her bounds. that she got into the level of activist journalism. they are already starting to kneecap her because-this story. bernie goldberg all over again. >> i hope for her sake i hope they appreciate the fact she is trying to get to the bottom of what is an important story. >> absolutely right. >> good to see you. when we come back, let not your heart be troubled. you get to pick the video of the day. we will tell you what it is next.
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>> time for your choice of the video of the day. tonight the unbelievabfofofofofe of a deer on a bus. it happened tuesday evening in western pennsylvania. a little white tail who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. bambi trying to bolt across the street smashed into the windshield of a moving bus and hopped around frantically near the driver, trying to jump back through the window it came through. and it jumped on the seats, ran in circles and jumped into the window trying to find an exit. luckily there was only one passenger on board. the driver stopped the bus, opened the door and bambi made his escape and ran away. and according to reports the driver, bambi, the passenger were all okay.
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good news. that's all we have tonight. greta is next to go on the record. we will see you back here with great conservative news tomorrow night. greta, take it away. >> this is a fox news alert. the irs executive who was head of the division targeting conservative groups is now running the obamacare office at the irs. abc political director rick klein reports us. abc news broke that story tonight. who is she? >> sarah hall ingram and she was in charge of the whole commission that takes care of the tax exempt groups. they are the ones overseeing the whole division in cincinnati that was targeting tea partyers. she was in charge of it during the entire period. she's been in the new job about a week. the guy who took her place in that job, joseph grant, he's actually -- they announced his resignation today. he would be retiring in a couple weeks anyway